One Playbook, 75 Countries: Ivan Misner's System Behind a Referral Engine That Compounds

The climb from $100M to $1B — the frame for this conversation

Host: Hey there, my friend. Great to see you. Dr. Ivan Misner — it's an absolute pleasure and honor to have you, and I'm super excited to learn from you.

Ivan Misner: I'm excited to do the interview. I love doing longer interviews, because you can really go deep. In these short interviews, it's hard to say anything that's really meaningful — so I'm really excited about doing this one.

Host: All right. Let's go.

Host: Welcome to CEO for a Day — the show where we sit down with the minds behind billion-dollar moves and learn exactly how to scale a company from $100 million to $1 billion and beyond. Whether you're a founder, CEO, or investor, this is where you come to get real strategies from people who build empires, not just talk about them. Today's guest is a legend in the world of relationship capital. He's the founder of BNI, the largest and most successful business networking organization on the planet, with over 290,000 members in 75 countries. He's been called the father of modern networking, written over 20 books, and created the Givers Gain philosophy that has transformed how business is done worldwide. If you're trying to raise capital, land a big partnership, or build a network that actually grows your company, this is the man you learn from. Please welcome Dr. Ivan Misner to the show. What an absolute privilege to have you.

Ivan Misner: It's absolutely my honor to be here. Thank you for having me — and please, call me Ivan.

Host: All right. Thank you, Ivan. Well — I'm scaling my business from $100 million to a billion dollars. That's the vision, in four years. And I'm interviewing experts, getting coaching from experts like you, to help me grow faster with less effort.

Inside BNI — 11,388 chapters across 75 countries, run on daily numbers

Host: You built an incredible organization, BNI International. That's what my record says — 11,386 chapters around the globe.

Ivan Misner: Around the globe, yeah. I get a daily report. It's actually now 11,388 as of this morning.

Host: Wow. Like two per day. That's outstanding. And why do you think it's important to know your numbers every day?

Ivan Misner: Well, when you're really small and you don't have the technology, it might not be every day — but you really should know your numbers on a weekly, no less than a monthly, basis. If you don't know your numbers, you're not gonna achieve your goal. Most people set goals, and then three or four months into the year they pull out their goals and go, "Ooh, geez, I'm not even close." So what you have to do is set these targets and then reverse engineer where you're at. If you set a goal for the end of December — where are you in November? In October? In September? In August? So that literally, 30 days into it, you know if you're on track to do it. And we have the technology today to get daily reports — so it's wonderful to get a daily report.

Host: But you transitioned a long time ago from being founder and CEO to founder and visionary — and you still look at the numbers on a daily basis.

Ivan Misner: Absolutely. Well, I'm still a part owner of the company. And we're now over 40 years old. I had one of my members come up to me about six months ago and say, "It's such an honor to be part of an organization that is 40 years old and the founder is still alive." I'm like, "Yes, thank you. I'm very happy to still be alive. I'm very happy to still be part of the organization." Very few organizations, when there's a transaction — and about 10 years ago, I had investors who came in and invested in BNI — it's really rare that 10 years later the founder is still active in the organization. And I'm really happy to still be active in it.

Host: Wow, that's incredible. I'm going through the same process — so I have a lot of questions for you.

Culture as an engineered system — one playbook, every market

Host: Your first question is: how do you scale? We're in three locations right now, and the culture is completely different — Milwaukee, Minneapolis, and we went to Florida. We learned that you have to adapt. So you're in how many countries — 75?

Ivan Misner: 75 countries.

Host: Wow. So how did you do that? Tell me about the culture, the vision. Everyone has the same core values, the same vision — and that's incredibly, incredibly hard, to keep all people together. How do you do that?

Ivan Misner: Well — culture eats strategy for breakfast. Culture is the secret sauce of a successful organization.

Host: Interesting. Culture eats strategy for breakfast.

Ivan Misner: It's the key to a successful organization. If you have a great culture and a marginal system, you're gonna do okay. And if you make mistakes, people will forgive — they're more forgiving, because you have a great culture. If you have a great system and a horrible culture, they're not so forgiving — and if there's a problem, your business is in trouble. Now, if you have a great system and a great culture, you're probably gonna be one of the industry leaders, because you have both in combination.

Ivan Misner: Now — you said you have different places and they're different cultures. That's kind of true. They'll certainly argue they're different. As a matter of fact, you know the one thing that's the same about all 75 countries I'm in? They all say, "We're different." They're not. Well — there are differences. But one of the things I learned many years ago is that there's a culture we don't think about: the culture of entrepreneurism. And entrepreneurism — if you can teach people anywhere how to be more effective, more efficient, how to be more successful, they're gonna pay attention to you. So with BNI as an example, we don't try to change the culture. What we have is a system and a process that's an overlay on top of the culture. We don't try to change it — if you tell them you're gonna change it, they're just gonna get mad.

Ivan Misner: Simple things. In Japan, when we were opening up chapters — they use what's called the meishi ritual with cards. It's in many Asian countries: they hold the card from both tips, and they bow. You take the card, and you comment on it. Americans — we just toss a card, practically. "Oh, here's my card." And we write on cards. You can't do that in Japan. So people were like, "Oh, it's gonna be so different, so different." And I said, "No, it's not gonna be that different." They said, "Why?" Because we're still handing out cards. I'm not giving you a rock and you're giving me a card — we're handing out cards. How we do it doesn't really matter. So you follow that within the culture, but you still have a system, an overlay — and that's how we operate in 75 countries. You could go to any country anywhere in the world, and you would know exactly where you're at in one of our BNI meetings, even if you don't know the language.

Host: Wow, that's amazing. But here's what I want to learn. I know you have a very unique system and process when you bring on new chapters — thorough training on core values and mission. And I also heard that everyone in BNI knows what you stand for, the philosophy and core values. Please give me some coaching: how did you do that, and how can we replicate it?

Ivan Misner: Well, it starts with the global headquarters. Our employees have to go through a several-week boot camp where they don't even get to do their job full-time — they do their job just part-time, and they go through boot camp. They meet with someone from HR, somebody from legal, somebody from sales — you spend hours with all of these different departments, learning the departments. They have to actually go to BNI meetings to observe and be part of it, to understand it fully. And for those of you who don't know — BNI is a referral marketing platform that helps small businesses generate referrals.

Ivan Misner: Now, at the chapter level, we have what's called Member Success Program training. That can be in person or online, and it's several hours of: you want to be successful at BNI? Here's how you're gonna be successful. Here's how to do a weekly presentation. Here's how to do your feature presentation. Here's how to do one-to-ones. We give a thorough orientation, so that when people start in the organization, they're not going, "Well, I don't know what to do." Instead, they have a really good idea. They can start at a walk, if not a run, right from the very beginning.

Host: And do they go to the headquarters — or where does it happen?

Ivan Misner: For the Member Success Program training, we have an online platform globally. It operates in all the different languages, so they can do it online. If they're doing it in person, it's done locally, by one of the local franchises or company-owned regions where there's live training. So there's a combination of the two.

Givers Gain — the philosophy behind 40 years of compounding referrals

Host: That's another challenge — managing the culture online, when people don't come to the office. We have people in the Philippines, India, Colombia, Ukraine — and everyone has a different culture. But you're training them all on the same program.

Ivan Misner: And if you have core values that transcend cultural differences, then it works everywhere. For example, our core values are things like the idea of Givers Gain. Givers Gain is based on the philosophy of the law of reciprocity.

Host: That's the Robert Cialdini book?

Ivan Misner: It's in several of my books — Givers Gain. The idea is that if I give to you, if I help you, you're gonna be much more willing to help me. It's really the principal core value of our organization. You can go anywhere in the world, to any one of the 11,000-plus chapters, and ask members, "What's the principal core value?" — and I promise you, you're gonna hear them say "Givers Gain." It's part of the DNA of our organization.

Ivan Misner: So the message there, for the people watching this: the executives — particularly the CEO and/or founder — have to be a culture champion. You have to be constantly talking about the culture, and the culture is made up of the core values, so you're constantly talking about the core values. And the core values work everywhere. Building relationships — where is building a relationship not a core value, when you're talking about referrals? I have to trust you. You have to trust me. So it has to be a relationship. That transcends cultural differences. Accountability — well, if you're in business: accountability. That's one of our core values. Recognition — where is it that people don't want to be recognized for the hard work they do? One of our core values is traditions plus innovation. It's one core value — and we did it as one, because traditions tell us where we come from as a tribe, and innovation tells us where we want to go. Where in the world are traditions and innovation not valuable? So you create core values that can transcend cultural differences, and then you teach everyone, constantly. It's a journey, not a destination. You're constantly teaching people on the core values.

Host: That's awesome. So you have to give first — give, provide value. And what if you don't get anything in return?

Ivan Misner: In one of my books, called Infinite Giving, we talk about that very subject. And we say: look, it's important to be a giver. It's important to give first. But being an infinite giver does not mean you're an infinite victim. At some point, it's important to have a conversation. So we teach people: if you're giving me referrals, and over a period of time I never give you referrals, I never help you, I never give you advice — I'm not giving back in some way — then what we recommend is you sit down with me and say, "Hey, Ivan, I've given you four referrals. Can we review them?" And I'll say, "Of course." And you'll say, "Here's the first one — how did that work out?" "Oh, it was great. Thank you so much." "Here's the second one — how did that work out?" And the third, and the fourth. And then, if you find that those referrals have worked out, what you want to say to me is: "I am really glad those referrals worked out. Could we spend a little bit of time now talking about how you might be able to reciprocate — how you might be able to give me referrals?" And what we find is that people oftentimes get so busy, they just kind of forget. We see it over and over again — somebody goes, "Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. You're absolutely right. Let's talk about how I can reciprocate." So it's clear, open, honest, direct communication, with the focus of helping build each other's business.

The VCP framework and how to network up

Host: That's great. Now let's talk a little bit about how to build your network. We meet a lot of people. I'm in different networking organizations — Harvard, YPO (Young Presidents' Organization) — my kids are in school, and we meet a lot of people who are way, way more successful. Not just a little bit — way more successful. So how do I add value to them? How can I add value to, let's say, a billionaire? I'm not a billionaire yet. How can I build a relationship with him, or with her?

Ivan Misner: There are two streams of thought there. One is: how do you network effectively? And then: how do you network up — with somebody in a higher weight class than you, more successful than you? So let me tackle the first one. First of all — we don't teach networking, or emotional intelligence, or social capital, in colleges and universities anywhere in the world. So what happens is, business people come out and they use networking as a face-to-face cold-calling opportunity. They go, "Hi, Andrey, my name's Ivan. Let's do business." And you're like, "Whoa, wait — I don't even know you. You don't even know me."

Ivan Misner: The foundation of what I teach is something called VCP: visibility, credibility, profitability. First, you have to be visible. You have to be out in the community. People have to meet you and get to know who you are. Then you have to establish credibility — and that's the one that takes time. Credibility is where people know who you are, and they know you're good at what you do, because you've built a reputation. And then — and only then — can you get to profitability, where people know who you are, know what you do, know you're good at it, and are willing to give you referrals. That's when you know you're successful at building a network.

Ivan Misner: So when you go to networking events and you meet somebody, you have to ask: "Where am I with this person?" I'm at invisibility — that's the first stage. I need to be visible. I need to get to know this person. You might go to a networking event and see somebody you've known for a long time, and you're at credibility — it's a different conversation. You say, "Hey, how's that project you're working on? I referred some people to you — how did that work out?" And then profitability is where you're definitely referring business back and forth, and it's a much quicker conversation, because you know each other well and you're doing business. So for those of you going out and networking — mostly peer-to-peer, or even a little bit of networking up — you've got to go through the VCP process. There's no quick way around it. Networking's a marathon, not a sprint.

Host: A marathon, not a sprint. Yeah — it takes time. Now: how do you network up, with people above your weight class? We get it all wrong in most cases. I did — I got it all wrong. How do you create visibility without being annoying? I get pitched all the time — and at a high level, they probably get it a hundred times more.

Ivan Misner: They do. So what you want to do is look for opportunities to help them, and you want to make a connection with them. I've had the opportunity to spend time on Necker Island five times.

Host: With Richard Branson?

Ivan Misner: Yeah — I've met Richard Branson many, many times. Okay, so — I almost hate to say this publicly, but on one of the trips, I really wanted Richard to do a video for my blog. It was one of the first times I met him, and I didn't want to be one of those guys — "Hey, Richard, would you do a video with me, please?" He didn't really even know me, and certainly didn't then. I didn't want to be that guy. So instead, I did a little research before I went there — and we're talking about 12 years ago, maybe 14, the first time. I found that he was working on something called the B Team — the business team — and how business can be noble, and how business can be quick in resolving issues in communities. I read about it online. And when I saw him on Necker, I said, "Hey, Richard, tell me about the B Team. I've read about it — it really sounds interesting." He lit up. He absolutely lit up. He's like, "Oh, I'm really excited about this," and he talked about it, and how business really can be noble.

Ivan Misner: And then I said to him: "How can I help you?" Those are magic words, Andrey. How can I help you? When you're networking up — know what they're interested in, and then ask how you can help with it. So I asked him, "How can I help you with this?" And he said, "Well, I don't know — you run this really large network. Can you get the word out to your network?" I said, "Are you kidding? I'd be happy to do that. I do a blog — would you like to do a video where you talk about the B Team?"

Host: Wow. That's a masterclass.

Ivan Misner: He was like, "Yeah, that'd be great. Let's do that." And sure enough, he did the video — and he's done, I think, two or three more over the years, when I've gone there. And again: I don't ask for a favor. I ask, "How can I help you?" The last one I did with him was on Virgin Voyages, his cruise line. I said, "You've got this new cruise line — tell me about it." He told me about it, and I said, "Well, you know, we've done videos where you talk to my members about things in the past. Would you like to do another one?" He's like, "Yeah, great." So we're literally on the beach on Necker Island, and we did this video. So: find ways to help them. And here's where most people go wrong —

Host: That's what I really want to learn.

Ivan Misner: Don't ask them to buy something. Don't sell to them. And people say, "Well, I'll never have this opportunity again." That's not true. If you help them, you might have that opportunity again. And they say, "Well, it never hurts to ask, right?" Wrong. It definitely hurts to ask. I've seen it with Richard, as a matter of fact — someone came up to him and just started pitching him. Richard didn't even know the guy, and he's pitching him.

Host: So he missed it. Visibility, credibility — and he went straight to the profitability.

Ivan Misner: Profitability. Which doesn't work.

Host: Which is mostly annoying, right?

Ivan Misner: And that's what happened. So instead — look for opportunities to help somebody, and don't sell to them at first. Build the relationship before you try to do it. Try to help them. And sometimes, if you help them — it also helps you.

Host: Wow, that's so true. Amazing.

A founder's evolving role — from "King Arthur" to "Colonel Sanders"

Host: So let's talk a little bit about visibility. I know you do about 150 interviews a year. That's a lot. Why do you do that?

Ivan Misner: Well, I do it to build the brand. One of the things I learned early on, when I did my first major book — it came out in 1994 — I would go to media outlets and say, "Hey, would you mind talking about my organization, BNI?" And they're like, "Take an ad out. We're not gonna talk about your organization." And at the time, I needed to create material that would help teach my members how to network — because we don't teach it in school — and I wanted to get interviews. What I discovered was: the media will interview any idiot with a book. And I have 30.

Host: You have 30 books?

Ivan Misner: 30 that I've written. So I get lots of interviews. And I would say, of the 150 interviews a year I do, 100 of them come not through my PR firm. They come directly — because I've built a reputation on various subjects, like scaling a business and networking effectively. People just do a search online, my name pops up, and they contact me.

Host: That's amazing. And you also have your own podcast — since 1997?

Ivan Misner: Since 2007, I've done over 900 — I think it's 912 — podcasts. It's very focused, it's BNI-centric, and they're short podcasts — only about 12 minutes long. Because I want my members — we have, at the time of this recording, over 340,000 members. 340,950 members, all over this planet.

Host: Wow. Unbelievable. That's so many.

Ivan Misner: So I do a short podcast. We have education coordinators in all the chapters, and they can take that short 12-minute podcast and do a five-minute information-sharing education for the members out of my podcast. So that's why they're kind of short.

Host: And what's your philosophy? As we grow, time becomes very valuable. If someone invites you to do a podcast, do you check them out — how many views they have?

Ivan Misner: I do check them out. But — I know some very, very successful people who will not do interviews unless it's a massive audience. I have a slightly different perspective. I'm happy to do smaller podcasts. I love doing larger podcasts, of course, but I'm happy to do smaller podcasts, because I've found that oftentimes these people are reasonably new. They haven't had an author who has published many books. And when I say yes, they're really excited. And what happens is — if their podcast is successful, two or three years later, when they've built their podcast, they call me back. And they say, "Hey, you came on two years ago. I can't tell you how much I appreciated you being there. My podcast is way more successful now — would you come back and talk about one of your newest books?" I'm like, "Absolutely. Happy to do it."

Ivan Misner: So I rarely say no. I rarely say no to writing forewords or endorsements, because you end up on the cover, or on the back page. I just do a review of the book to make sure it's in alignment with what I teach. And before I do a foreword on any book — BNI doesn't do politics, we don't do religion. We stay out of those two topics. So I make sure the book doesn't talk politics or religion, doesn't have excessive swearing, doesn't have drug use — I check all of that. And then I say, "I'll do the foreword. You write up a draft that will serve you best; I'll edit it and do it." It builds the brand.

Host: That's so powerful. Okay — from now on, I'm going to change my strategy. I get a lot of requests from people, and I have three kids — I want to make sure I have enough time for my family, and most of the time I'm not really sure whether it's worth my time. Now I'm going to accept every request. Because you never know — every big podcast, at one point, was a small one.

Ivan Misner: It was. And I think, for those watching this: you have to ask yourself — is my role, your role, about building the brand? If the answer is no, then you wouldn't want to do every podcast. But if you are about building the brand — if that's part of what you do — then the answer's yes. You take all of the legitimate, decent interviews you have the opportunity to do. And that's really — you know, I've gone from being the CEO, being King Arthur leading the charge and building the business, to being Colonel Sanders. I'm the spokesperson for the organization. So I take almost all the podcasts.

Personal effectiveness — Flame vs Wax and the color-coded calendar

Host: So as of today, what do you think is the best time you can spend on your business — in your role? You own a company; you're a visionary. What does your day look like? And maybe you can give me some coaching — what system, what framework do you use? I know you have an amazing system, with your calendar color-coded.

Ivan Misner: I do, yeah — we've talked about that. I have for decades color-coded my calendar. And for many years it was: the things that I should be doing to work on the business, and the things that I have to do to work in the business. My goal over the years was to be mostly working on the business, rather than in the business. An interview like this — a video like this — is working on the business. I'm building the brand. So I color-code my calendar, and it so happens that Outlook seems to have a lot of shades of green. Strategic planning, chief visionary officer work, interviews, writing, speaking — those are all different shades of green. Nonprofit work, charitable work — I want to do that, so it's a shade of green too. So the truth is, I look at my calendar, and if it's a green day — if everything is green — I'm like: "This is a good day. I'm doing everything that I should be doing."

Ivan Misner: I think an entrepreneur is either working in their flame, or they're working in their wax.

Host: What does that mean?

Ivan Misner: When they're working in their flame, they're on fire. They're excited. They love what they're doing. You can hear it in their voice; you can see it in the way they behave. If they're working in their wax, it just takes all their energy away — and you can hear that in their voice, you can see it in the way they behave. So what entrepreneurs, what executives need to do, is find ways to work more and more in your flame — and hire people to work in your wax. Because my wax happens to be somebody else's flame. I've seen it over and over again. I hate bookkeeping. But when I got a bookkeeper, she was so excited to balance the checkbook. I'm like, "Dude, I haven't balanced the checkbook for the two years before you came here. I didn't do it." That was her flame. She was excited to do it. So you hire people where your wax is their flame. And remember one other thing: you can't get to working in your flame overnight. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, to get to do what you wanna do. As long as you have your eye on the ball, and you're working towards it, and you're making progress — I think the goal is to try to have a life working in your flame, and not your wax.

Host: That's so well said. Thank you for sharing that. We're going to make this quote available on all the social media. Everyone: you gotta do what you gotta do, in order to do what you wanna do.

Ivan Misner: Yeah. Absolutely.

Host: All right — let's talk a little bit about scaling. We want to acquire other companies — roll-ups, that's the concept. So what should I do now to preserve the culture, preserve the organization, and mitigate my risk integrating a company that might be in the Midwest, or South Florida — or say we go west? What mistakes can I prevent? What should I do? What would be the framework? You've bought companies before.

Ivan Misner: We have, yeah — not many. We've bought some franchises back, for areas that we had sold. Okay — there's a lot in what you're asking there. Let me see if I can hit them one at a time, and let me start with companies that are a little smaller than yours — somebody watching this who wants to scale, but they're a little bit smaller. Early on in my experience with BNI, I really understood that ignorance on fire is better than knowledge on ice. What does that mean? It means I couldn't afford knowledge on fire. I couldn't afford the employees with lots of experience when I started BNI — very knowledgeable, and on fire. Instead, I hired people who maybe didn't have a lot of experience, but they were excited. They were sponges. They were happy to do this. And of course, I had to spend time training them — but you train these people, and you create a loyalty with these people, because you mentor them, and they stay with your organization. I have had people who've been in my organization for almost 40 years — I've got one who's been in for 38 years. And before we moved from California to North Carolina, I had employees who had been with me for 30 years. You build that by being willing to train people. So ignorance on fire is better than knowledge on ice. Eventually, as you become successful, you get knowledge on fire. That's what you're looking for.

Ivan Misner: I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make early on — and even to mid-size: if you want to be successful in business, you have to do six things a thousand times. Six things, a thousand times. Not a thousand things six times. And I see too many businesses doing a thousand things six times. They're constantly chasing bright, shiny objects. "Ooh, Andrey, look at this. Let's try this idea." And they do it six times — "Well, that didn't work." And, "Ooh, look at this idea. Let's try that." And by the way, it doesn't have to be six. It could be five. It could be seven. But the key is: you go to your mentors. You listen to videos like this. You find somebody that resonates with you, that you believe in, who's successful — and you take the concepts, and then you apply them within your business, like we're talking about culture. And you do it over and over and over and over again. Entrepreneurs like doing new things — but that actually is hard to scale, and it's difficult with your employees, because you're constantly bouncing around. You want to be successful? Do six things a thousand times, not a thousand things six times.

Ivan Misner: And culture — it comes back to where we started. It's a journey, not a destination. You're constantly talking about it. For example, in our staff meetings — before every single staff meeting, the person running the meeting picks one of the employees and says, "Could you talk about one of our seven core values, and why it resonates with you?" So if you don't know the core values, you're like, "Ah—" and that's a problem, and then they get retrained and re-coached. But generally speaking, they've got the core values down, and they'll stand up and say, "Lifelong learning is one of our core values." By the way — where is lifelong learning not applicable, anywhere in the world? That's one of our core values. Find core values that work everywhere. I love that core value at BNI — I love that we have the online training platform and the in-person training platform. And they just talk about why that resonates with them. And you repeat it, over and over. You can't just put core values on the wall of your office and expect people to live them. You gotta practice them, and talk about them, all the time.

Host: Yeah — we went through the same process. We had 10 core values, and we condensed them into three, and explained what each one means. And now people remember: we have ICE — integrity, connection, and excellence. Each core value has five or six explanations, and it makes it super easy. We also created a rap song — we used ChatGPT, a long time ago. It was unbelievably fun, and it stuck.

Ivan Misner: Nice.

Role models, the E-Myth lesson, and the 66-question relationship card

Host: One of the most successful principles I learned — I learned it from Jack Canfield — he said, "Find a role model." So who are the role models that you use in your life? And how does a normal person — maybe not an entrepreneur, but an employee, or an aspiring entrepreneur — find a role model for themselves?

Ivan Misner: Well, Jack has been a friend for 20 years, so he certainly has been a role model for me. Richard Branson is an amazing person. What I love about both of them is that their ego does not enter the room before they do. They're both really humble people, and I like that. I think humble people don't think more of themselves — they just think of themselves less. And both of them are very humble.

Ivan Misner: The very first person that I really felt was a mentor was a virtual mentor — meaning I never met him, at first. And that was Michael Gerber. He wrote the book The E-Myth.

Host: I'm smiling, because I interviewed Michael Gerber about 12 years ago. He was one of my first guests.

Ivan Misner: He's an amazing man. I didn't know Michael, but I read The E-Myth — we were maybe six, seven, eight years into BNI. And I was at a radio station, and the host said, "What was one of the books you were reading to learn how to scale your company?" And I said, "Well, The E-Myth, by Michael Gerber. He taught me in the book how to work on your business, not in your business — to write everything down as though you're going to franchise your business, even if you have no intention of franchising." So I wrote it all down, having no intention of franchising. But then, when I had it all written down, I was like — "Oh. Why can't I franchise?" And then I started franchising.

Ivan Misner: So I say all of this in the radio interview, and I get home, and I'm there for like an hour, and my assistant buzzes me and says, "Hey, Ivan, I've got somebody on the phone for you. He says his name is Michael Gerber, and he'd like to talk to you." I'm like, "No — really?" She's like, "Yeah, Michael Gerber is on the phone." I'm shocked, right? He was absolutely my hero. So I picked up the phone, and it was Michael — and he thanked me. He happened to be in his car, driving, flipping through radio stations, and he hears a person say, "What book were you reading?" — "Oh, The E-Myth, by Michael Gerber" — and I go on for three, four minutes. And he just called me and thanked me for talking about his book. It had been out for a few years, and he wasn't getting quite as many interviews on it. And he said, "Hey, I'd love to get together with you and meet you." And I said, "Michael, I'd love to meet you, but I'm headed up to my lake house this weekend, so I'm not gonna be in town. But if you'd like to come on up to my lake house and join us — I've got several guest bedrooms. You're welcome to come on up."

Host: Did you say, "Let me check my calendar"?

Ivan Misner: I did not. I said, "You are welcome to come on up." And he said yes. So the first time I met Michael, he actually spent the weekend with me.

Ivan Misner: The point of that story: oftentimes — at least sometimes — a virtual mentor, somebody you watch on YouTube, or somebody whose book you read or listen to — sometimes that virtual mentor can become a real mentor, and maybe even a real friend. I consider Michael a friend now. I just spoke to him a month or so ago. He's done a lot of video blogs on my blog — IvanMisner.com is my blog. I consider him a good friend.

Host: That's an incredible story. We also have a mutual friend — a man I consider a master networker. He told me he calls about 10 people a day, to say happy birthday. Every single day. That's unbelievable.

Ivan Misner: He walks the talk on networking. He wrote a classic book on the subject — and another one where he talks about keeping notes on the people that you talk to. Every time I've talked to him in the past, he would say, "How's your daughter Ashley? How's Dorian? How's Trey? How are you doing with your chess game?" — he would have all this stuff. And then I read his book, and I'm like: okay, now I see what he's doing. It's brilliant.

Host: I saw his drawer — the 66-question relationship card. He has a big shelf with all those files. He knows exactly what your dog's name is — and he does it in such a great, graceful way. There's no impression of, "Anyway, let me see who—"

Ivan Misner: He's very subtle. You don't know he's doing it — unless you read his book, which I did, after he had talked to me a couple of times. And I'm like: okay, now I see what he's doing. He does it so subtly and so effectively. It works really, really well. I'd highly recommend it.

Host: So if someone wants to get a mentor, what should they do? What's the first step? How can they network up to the mentor?

Ivan Misner: I think one of the things you want to do is first start with virtual mentors. Listen to audio programs. Watch videos. Find somebody who is successful, and what they're talking about resonates with you, resonates with your business. Then, if they have training programs, go to their training program. We just finished a mastermind with Jack Canfield — and if you want him to be a mentor of some kind, you've gotta go meet the person, in person. So I would highly recommend that you go to whatever programs they've got — and more than once — and make a connection.

Ivan Misner: Now — we talked about networking up. This is a really important concept in networking up. People like Jack, people like Richard — you know, I've got an organization of 340,000 people. You meet somebody — and sometimes I meet somebody, and then three years later I'm back in that same area, and they'll say, "Hi, remember me?" And it's like: okay, I met you three years ago, at a meeting with 800 people. Give me some context. So never, ever say "Remember me?" if you're networking up. As a matter of fact, if you're meeting anyone — don't say "Nice to meet you" to someone you don't recognize, and certainly don't say "Remember me?" What you say to someone you don't recognize is: "Nice to see you." "Great to see you." And if you've met them before, it's like, "Great to see you again, too." All right — so I've met this person before. And then you get them to talk, and you find out where it is you know them from.

Ivan Misner: So whenever I reach out to Richard — and you don't reach out to Richard much; you don't want to be a pest, but I've emailed him a few times — I always send a photograph in the email.

Host: Of what?

Ivan Misner: Of him and me. A photograph of him and me. And I say, "Hey, Richard — I last saw you at Necker Island two years ago. Here's a picture of us. I just wanted to reach out," and then whatever it is I was going to say. And I reach out to him about as often as a solar eclipse — because you don't want to bug a billionaire. But he's so generous — he always replies back and says, "Of course I remember you, Ivan." I don't know if he remembers me or not. So: you help people with information when you're networking up. "Hey, it's great to see you again. The last time you were here, three years ago, you did a presentation on such-and-such." That gives them context. If you're networking up, make it easy for the person you're networking up with — a photo, or context.

Balance is a myth — presence, Who's in Your Room, phone-free dinners

Host: That's great. Well — growing a business takes a lot of energy, and family is very important to me. I have two kids. So how do you — not find a balance, but how do you balance between the business that requires your attention, employees, and family?

Ivan Misner: Great question. I talk about this at length towards the end of one of my books — Who's in Your Room?

Host: That's such a great book. I already bought it.

Ivan Misner: Thank you very much. It's all about the people you surround yourself with. We have a chapter in there about balance. Do you think your viewers would like to know the secret to balance? Because I have the secret to balance.

Host: Of course. Tell us.

Ivan Misner: Here is the secret to balance: forget about it. You'll never have it. And generally, when I say that to a live audience, there's somebody that goes, "Oh — I thought I was gonna get something good." You're gonna get something good. I don't think life — especially for business people, entrepreneurs — is a balancing act. When you think of balance, you think of scales: my personal life has to be in balance with my professional life, which has to be in balance with my health and spirituality. Life isn't a balancing act. Life is a juggling act. You're constantly juggling things. So instead of looking at it from the perspective of balance, I recommend that people look at it from the perspective of harmony. You create a life of harmony. Even the graphic for harmony — the yin and the yang — is out of balance.

Host: Harmony — wow. So how do you get a life of harmony?

Ivan Misner: You do a few things. One — and this sounds easy, but it's not — be here now. Those simple words: be here now. If you're at work, don't be thinking about the fact that you didn't spend time with the family last night. If you're at home, don't be thinking about that project that's gotta get done at work. Wherever you are, be fully and completely present in that moment — so that even though you may not be there as much as you would like, when you're there, you're there.

Ivan Misner: I remember when my son was 17 — he's in his early 30s now. I traveled every other week for 30 years.

Host: How did your family handle that? What about the harmony?

Ivan Misner: Well, first of all, my wife was great about me sending photos via email — and she would put photos up on the refrigerator, and sometimes a map: "Here's where Dad is. Here's some photos of him." And one of my kids gave me a little pipe-cleaner man, who she named Bob. So I would have people take pictures of me and Bob all around the world, and my late wife would put the pictures up there. I have 2.6 million miles on American Airlines alone — that I've traveled. I've used a lot of them. But 2.6 million miles — so, I travel a lot.

Host: 2.6 million? Wow. Maybe you have extra — you can send them my way.

Ivan Misner: [laughs] Good to know. So when my son was 17 — we were playing Halo, the game, and we were leveling up to the next level, so we had a minute or so — I said, "Hey, buddy, let me ask you a question. Was I around enough for you while you were growing up?" He was 17, and I was a little nervous about his answer. And he looked at me like I was crazy. He's like, "What?" I said, "Was I around enough for you as you were growing up?" He's like, "You're around all the time." "But I don't know if you noticed — I'm actually gone every other week, for at least a few days." He said, "Yeah, I know — Mom puts the stuff up; I know where you're at. But when you're here, you're here. Can we get back to the game now?" And I'm like, "Yes, we can. Happy to get back to the game now." And that showed me that I was doing a pretty good job of practicing what I preach about be here now.

Ivan Misner: The second is: leverage your time. We have a whole list of things on how to have harmony, but one is leveraging your time. I mentioned going to my lake house and inviting Michael Gerber — but I also took the family out. So yes, I was doing some business. I had Michael there; the kids were playing. And then I'd be like, "Hey, everybody — let's go out on the boat." So I'd take my kids out on the boat, took Michael and his wife out on the boat, and my wife. The family was out on the boat. The kids didn't know I was working. You leverage your time in different ways. The first major book I wrote — my wife and I would put the kids to bed, I'd put my wife to bed, and I'd start writing around 11:00, once a week, and I'd finish at 4:00, 5:00 — all night. And then I'd sleep a few hours and go into the office. When the book was done, my oldest daughter said, "You wrote a book? When did you write a book?" She didn't know. She was asleep; I was writing. Now, that may not work for everybody — some people might want to get up early and do it, whatever works for you. You leverage your time in ways that create harmony in your life. My life was way out of balance — but I have lived a life of great harmony.

Host: Wow. I think it's important to be intentional about what you want to accomplish. I did a speech with YPO, and I asked the people in the audience, "How many of you have core values for your business, and a mission statement?" Everyone raised their hand. Everyone. And I said, "How about a personal vision statement, and your family core values?" I remember we had about 60 people. Two raised their hands. Two people.

Ivan Misner: Yeah — you're absolutely right. And that happens all the time.

Host: And when people have dinner with their family, and they get the phone call — "Excuse me, I have to take it. It's very, very important." What can be more important than your family?

Ivan Misner: Nothing. And that's one of the things I recommend in terms of creating harmony: dinner time is dinner time. No phones. No electronics. And when I wasn't traveling, I was home for dinner every night between 6:00 and 6:30. We'd have dinner as a family, and one of our traditions was: "What did you learn today?" Anything.

Host: That's a powerful question. Just — what did you learn?

Ivan Misner: When they're young, it sometimes creates chaos or anxiety. If I had it to do over, I'd say, "What did you learn today?" or, "What was the best part of your day?" Either one of those two. Extra points for "what did you learn." And you get everyone in the family to say something.

Host: I do the same with my kids. I ask them, "What were your wins for today? What's the biggest challenge? What was the biggest struggle — where did you fail?" And they open up. It's great family interaction.

Ivan Misner: That's the way you create a life of harmony. You're here. You're present. Because you're not on your phone; you're not stepping away. When you're there, you're there. And that's really important.

Ivan Misner: Now, as for the values — that's so critical. It's one of the very first chapters of Who's in Your Room? — you've gotta get good with your values. If you don't know your values, then you don't know who to let into your room. Because the concept is that we all live our life in one room. And that one room has an enter-only door — so that when people come into your room, into your life, they're there forever. You can never get them out. Now, people say, "Well, yeah — it's a metaphor." We would say it's not a metaphor, and here's why. When you let somebody into your life — really into your life — they are going to impact your life. So I tell people: think of someone that you let in who was toxic, and difficult, and full of drama — and you got them out of your life. Make sure you have somebody. Do you have somebody in mind?

Host: Yes. A couple of people popped up right away.

Ivan Misner: You got it. All right — so here's the thing. If they're still in your head, they're still in your room. And they will be, for the rest of your life. We interviewed Dr. Daniel Amen — the neuroscientist and psychiatrist — and he said, "When you let people into your life, their fingerprints are all over your brain. Good or bad." So you've gotta be really careful about the people that you let into your life. And how are you careful? Well, we recommend that you create a mental doorkeeper. It's your conscious and subconscious mind — and you train them on your values. And this is where the values become really important. What are your values? So you, mentally — consciously and subconsciously — can say: "Yeah, you're not coming in. You're not coming into my head. You're gonna stay on the porch. I may have to interact with you, but you're not gonna be an important part of my life." And you keep them out. That's one of the core concepts of Who's in Your Room?

Host: So if someone toxic came into your room, they stay forever. How do you get rid of them?

Ivan Misner: You can't get rid of them — but we talk about the fact that you can put them in the remote parts of your mind. We try to give a visualization. We say: you take that toxic person, and you put them in one of those plastic boxes you keep T-shirts in. You close the lid, you get on a ladder, and you put them high up on a shelf. So they're on a shelf, up high, and you don't think about them. Now, every now and then, they'll pop up in the box, and pop out, and you'll have that experience again. But you stick them in a box, and you put them up there — and they're not out of your life, because they're in your brain, but you can put them in a corner.

Host: Sometimes they teach you a lesson.

Ivan Misner: Yeah. And what happens is, a lot of people have these negative experiences, and that negativity becomes part of their story — and it's a bad story, because they had a negative experience. I say: try to take those negative experiences and turn them into something positive. I'll give you an example. When I was working my way through graduate school, I was working from midnight till 7:00 in the morning, putting groceries on a shelf. I went into the assistant manager's office — he was the graveyard-shift assistant manager — and I said, "Hey, boss, I've got this idea that would make things go a little bit faster." And I explained it to him. And he looks at me, and he says, "Misner — we don't pay you to think. We pay you to put groceries on a shelf. Now get your [bad word] out there and put groceries on a shelf." I like to say "bad word" rather than actually saying the bad words. And I remember walking out of there thinking: if I ever own my own business, or if I'm ever an executive in a company, I will never, ever tell one of my employees, "I don't pay you to think." I do pay you to think. So — 10 years later, he had been promoted to the daytime assistant manager. And I was running a global enterprise.

Host: At the same grocery store. Wow. That's so powerful.

Health, the daily discipline, and "networking is farming, not hunting"

Host: So how do you bring your energy up? What's your routine — how do you rejuvenate? And how important is it, in your mind, to have enough rest?

Ivan Misner: Yeah — I was bad at that as a young man. The rest part. I can talk about rejuvenation — I guess I've been good at that — but I didn't get enough rest, and it certainly impacted my health. I was operating on five or six hours a night, and I don't recommend that to people. You really need to do better than that. I think it's one of the reasons that I had a health problem — I was diagnosed with cancer 12 years ago. In complete remission. But now I get, generally speaking, a minimum of seven hours, usually eight hours of sleep. I really think that sleep is important. I didn't realize that when I was a young man.

Ivan Misner: In terms of rejuvenation — there are a few things that I do. One — and I really recommend this to entrepreneurs and business people — one day a week, I take what I call a mental health day. What does that mean? It means I'm not going anywhere. I might go out on my boat with the family. I'll hang out in the pool. I may grill some food. I'll probably binge-watch something on Netflix. I'm not gonna take business phone calls. I'm not gonna do email. It's a mental health day. It's a day for me to rejuvenate. And it took a while for my late wife to understand that — we were married 31 years before she passed away — but the longer we were married, the more she got it: I'm a better human being, I'm happier, I'm more engaged, if I get that day off. And it's amazing to me how people work seven days a week, many, many hours, without taking a break. You've gotta take a break. Life's too short. Believe me — life's too short.

Host: So — I'm 44. What advice would you give to me, or to yourself, at 44?

Ivan Misner: I would say: if you live your values, you're going to have a happier existence. You're gonna be happier later in life if you live your values. I would also say: don't worry about making mistakes. You will. It's inevitable. We all make mistakes. In my company, I probably made the most expensive mistakes in the company, with some of my decisions. So I would say: define yourself by your successes, not your failures. Learn from your failures. For me, my failures were my tuition for success. I paid a lot of tuition — but I'm also pretty successful. And I'm successful, I think, because I made mistakes, I learned from those mistakes, and I always tried my best to define myself by my successes. I believe your windshield is larger than your rear-view mirror for a reason: because you've gotta be looking forward, not living in the past. Yeah, you've gotta look in the past a little bit, every now and then — but your windshield's larger than your rear-view mirror, and you've gotta live on the windshield. The future.

Host: What great advice. Well — Ivan, I appreciate you so much. We have so much to learn from you, and we're going to follow the advice, follow the blueprint, and network up, using your principles.

Ivan Misner: Can I give you one last concept? You want to be successful at networking? You've gotta understand that networking is more about farming than it is about hunting.

Host: Not farming, but hunting?

Ivan Misner: No — it's about farming, not hunting. It's about cultivating relationships with people, not just trying to do transactions. It's about building relationships. If you understand that, you're on your way to building a powerful personal network.

Host: Wonderful. Well, it was my absolute honor. Thank you so much — and we will connect.

Ivan Misner: Thanks.

Host: If you want to grow your company from $100 million to a billion, it's not just about strategy. It's about who you know — and who knows you. What Dr. Misner shared today isn't theory. It's a playbook built on decades of success across the globe. Now it's your turn to take action. If this conversation sparked something for you, share it with someone in your network who needs to hear it. And remember: every billion-dollar business starts with one relationship. See you next time on CEO for a Day.